Million Dollar Round Table

[harry]

Are these guys good at their job or just good talkers??

[adrian2]

It would help to give more details about what/who you're talking about.

[harry]

My son was talking to a FA who said he belonged to this group. Just trying to get some background on the group or society to see what it all means. I gather that FA's that do a certian amount of business can belong.

[Flights of Fancy]

...usually means a million bucks in commissions generated per year on the part of the FA (lots of insurance peeps in this group).

I'm mystified as to how that is a measure of anything other than sales skill and high volumes of sales. Particularly initial sales, as commissions in the financial services industry are typically front-loaded. I would think it skews (requires?) the advisor to be continually looking for new business, and I'm not certain that's a quality one seeks out in an advisor with whom one wants a long-term relationship.

[shrug]

[augustabound]

Never heard of them.
I googled it and the only thing I saw was a Canadian charitable organization by that name.
Either ask for clarification from the advisor or go elsewhere.
It sounds like a part of a bad sales pitch to me.

[steves]

Google MDRT. It is a pretty big deal in the life insuance biz.

[marty123]

Are these guys good at their job or just good talkers??

There job is to sell financial services, and MDRT means they are good at it. Whether the FA will be a good fit for your son (customer service, expertise, knowledge, honesty, valuable advice, availability, etc.) is a totally different question.

I would personally not think that MDRT membership is of any value to me, as a customer. MDRT membership is not enough (or necessary) due diligence.

[kcowan]

We used to have Golden Circle events for the top 10% of the sales people wordwide. There is nothing wrong with rewarding outstanding performance.

I attended 3 if them, 2 in Hawaii and one at Leguna Nigel. To imply that high performance must be somehow bad is unfortunate.

OTOH I would view with suspicion anyone who used their past sales performance as a reason why I should believe them or buy from them.

[marty123]

kcowan, I didn't imply that it was a bad thing, I just said that the 2 (sales performance and value to customer) may not always be linked.

I don't doubt that your Golden Circle sales people where good for the company, and they should indeed have been rewarded by the company. Does that explicitely mean that they were good for the customers and prospects that they approached?

I still maintain that MDRT is no indication of the level of service, honesty and expertise to be expected. At best, it is a criteria that can replace a few other due diligence checks for lazy customers (he sold a lot, therefore he's been around for a while, is committed to the profession, and has a moderate level of expertise in the industry). At worst (although not necessarily), it could also mean that a small fish will get no attention, that expensive services are pushed or that the sales person is good at persuading customers to buy.

More importantly, the sales person is already pushing features to the OP's son, but has not been able to explain to him what benefits will be derived by this particular "feature" of the service, and why it's a good thing for OP's son. That kind of sales approach makes me cringe. Not a good start IMHO.

[kcowan]

Marty

I think we are verging on violent agreement...

[Flights of Fancy]

FWIW, I think there is a big difference between an organization rewarding outstanding performance internally (i.e., MDRT, peformance rewards like trips) and suggesting that the criteria which leads to the internal recognition are a measure of anything relevant to customers.

I didn't mean to imply that performance shouldn't be rewarded - I just am not sure that internal performance criteria translate into anything useful for external users or prospects.

[steves]

I think the MDRT is a worldwide-ish organization made up of big-time heavy hitters (life insurance salesman) It is not an internal sales performance-rewarding group (i.e. within a single li company)... it's kind of a 'mensa' for top producers arond the world.

The current top dog is Jim Rogers from Vancouver, a guy I have a lot of respect for. (A big "I'm sorry" to all you insurance-haters out there)

[parvus]

Well, I wouldn't say mensa, but if Jim gets them halfways there, (and gets them credentialled, and gets them to read the small print of what the credential stipulates, and ... act in the spirit of it and ... ) then he will have done everyone a tremendous service.

[marty123]

I think we are verging on violent agreement...

I can settle for that kind of violence

I think the MDRT is a worldwide-ish organization made up of big-time heavy hitters (life insurance salesman) It is not an internal sales performance-rewarding group (i.e. within a single li company)... it's kind of a 'mensa' for top producers arond the world.

The current top dog is Jim Rogers from Vancouver, a guy I have a lot of respect for. (A big "I'm sorry" to all you insurance-haters out there)

No doubt that he commands a lot of respect. I too can respect anyone that is at the top of their field. It still doesn't mean that I'd want to be his client, or that his top ranking within MDRT would be a positive factor in my selection of an advisor.

Then again, unlike Harry's son's advisor, maybe Rogers would be able to convince me that having an MDRT advisor-member would be of benefit to me

[brucecohen]

No doubt that he commands a lot of respect. I too can respect anyone that is at the top of their field. It still doesn't mean that I'd want to be his client, or that his top ranking within MDRT would be a positive factor in my selection of an advisor.

Then again, unlike Harry's son's advisor, maybe Rogers would be able to convince me that having an MDRT advisor-member would be of benefit to me

Jim Rogers is a good friend of mine; I've known him for 20 years and when he was in active practice had no qualms about referring people in Vancouver to him and his associates.

Jim played a major and instrumental role in the merger that led to the creation of Advocis, widespread recognition by advisors of the need for and value of professional training in general and the CFP in particular, and has donated a substantial amount of time to consumer education efforts. In recent years he has worked very hard to try to professionalize the MDRT, noting that its membership includes a lot of old-school insurance people who are more attuned to selling than advising.

MDRT is, in fact, an association of people who've been successful at selling, as explained here. With a lfelong commitment to ethical conduct and professional competence, Jim has shown that success at selling and at advising are not mutually exclusive. But -- as we have seen from a long parade of rogues -- they are not necessarily mutually inclusive. Ergo:

-- An excellent salesman can be an excellent advisor
-- A mediocre or poor salesman can be an excellent advisor
-- An excellent salesman can be a mediocre or poor advisor
-- A mediocre or poor salesman can be a mediocre or poor advisor.

While MDRT membership holds cachet among people in the financial services industry -- mainly those rooted in insurance -- I don't see how or why it stands on its own as a consumer benefit.

[twa2w]

An excellent salesman can be an excellent advisor
-- A mediocre or poor salesman can be an excellent advisor
-- An excellent salesman can be a mediocre or poor advisor
-- A mediocre or poor salesman can be a mediocre or poor advisor.

Yes but in the world of commisions poor salesman is not an excellent advisor for long

[kcowan]

An excellent salesman can be an excellent advisor
-- A mediocre or poor salesman can be an excellent advisor
-- An excellent salesman can be a mediocre or poor advisor
-- A mediocre or poor salesman can be a mediocre or poor advisor.

Yes but in the world of commisions poor salesman is not an excellent advisor for long

Unless they have built their business though reputation. I have a broker at Canaccord who I found through networking. He is an honest and conscientious engineer who built up his practice by being honest and thorough about his recommendations.

And he takes the bus to work...

[augustabound]

And he takes the bus to work...

How very Phil Fisher of him. Good on him, no need for the Mercedes.
Well................. maybe on weekends it's ok.

[brucecohen]

FWIW, yesterday financial services marketing consultant Dan Richards posted "tough" questions that advisors are getting from prospective clients.

1. Tell me about yourself? How are you different?
2. What’s your investment philosophy and process? How is it different from other advisors?
3. What’s the average asset level of your clients? Where would I fit in?
How long have you been in the business? What kind of qualifications do you have? What do you do to stay current?
4. How often would we meet? How long does it take to return calls from your clients?
5. Do you monitor the satisfaction of your clients? Could I talk to a couple of your clients about their experience working with you?
6. Tell me about the last couple of clients who left you and took their account elsewhere?
7. How are you paid? What kind of money would you make on my account? What would I get for that?
8. How did you position client portfolios coming into this year? Would you be willing to share the performance of your own portfolio over the past couple of years?

[Bylo Selhi]

FWIW, yesterday financial services marketing consultant Dan Richards posted "tough" questions that advisors are getting from prospective clients.

In a similar vein Book helps advisers and their clients

Toronto lawyer Ellen Bessner has distilled 20 years of experience defending and teaching financial advisers into a simple book.

Advisor At Risk, A Roadmap To Protecting Your Business is obviously directed at the sellers of securities, insurance and other financial products, not their clients.

Investors may not appreciate the sympathy and understanding she shows for advisers "whose integrity, reputation and licence are on the line" when a client complains or sues over losing money.

But it's these clients of financial advisers – the folks who put their trust and money into the hands of strangers – who stand to gain most from her efforts.

Tips in her book should make for better advisers, fewer surprises and less misunderstanding. Meanwhile, consumers who read the book will be better equipped to select the sort of adviser who acts with care and professionalism, and know better how to work with that person...

[squash500]

FWIW, yesterday financial services marketing consultant Dan Richards posted "tough" questions that advisors are getting from prospective clients.

Bruce, how many advisors would have the actual patience to answer all those excellent questions?

[brucecohen]

FWIW, yesterday financial services marketing consultant Dan Richards posted "tough" questions that advisors are getting from prospective clients.

Bruce, how many advisors would have the actual patience to answer all those excellent questions?

I think the good ones -- who are interested in building a long-term advisory relationship -- would answer most of them if the prospective client has enough money or potential to make the exercise worthwhile. I don't think the performance of the advisor's own portfolio is relevant because he/she may well have a much different risk profile and, of course, there's a natural tendency to not practice what one preaches.

[kcowan]

FWIW, yesterday financial services marketing consultant Dan Richards posted "tough" questions that advisors are getting from prospective clients.

Bruce, how many advisors would have the actual patience to answer all those excellent questions?

I think the good ones -- who are interested in building a long-term advisory relationship -- would answer most of them if the prospective client has enough money or potential to make the exercise worthwhile. I don't think the performance of the advisor's own portfolio is relevant because he/she may well have a much different risk profile and, of course, there's a natural tendency to not practice what one preaches.

I agree. However, the size of their portfolio should be some measure of being a practioner rather than a teacher. e.g. driving a $100k automobile would be more acceptable with a $3000k portfolio than with a $500k.

[Bylo Selhi]

FWIW, yesterday financial services marketing consultant Dan Richards posted "tough" questions that advisors are getting from prospective clients.

Bruce, how many advisors would have the actual patience to answer all those excellent questions?

I think the good ones -- who are interested in building a long-term advisory relationship -- would answer most of them if the prospective client has enough money or potential to make the exercise worthwhile.

And vice versa. I suspect most HNW prospects would walk, if not run, out the door if a prospective adviser didn't answer such questions thoughtfully and patiently.

[blonde]

Study the 'Sales' System...stratify the processes to meaningful chunks...understand the METRICS...do not be distracted...

Do not be surprised to learn that the 'Sales' model is a cookie cutter model pulled directly from professional wrestling...same practices...same charm-school...same non-rules...same cycle time...same pay-for-performance...same it is ALL about MONEY, MEGA-MONEY for the top-dawg...

The top-dawg, with the corner office located on the top-floor, dealing with his UCS posse calls the shots...provides the script for these same UCSer-Monkeys...the Monkey mental horsepower is bordering on MT. The smart-ones, from SK, can memorize the script. The UCSer-Monkeys are non-thinkers...trainable by not educatable. There is an upside to having the top-dawg call the shots...the Monkeys do know 'how' to dance, needless to say it is necessary to have a top-performing Monkey crank the organ...The rest is ALL about MONEY in the bank-account.

Sales, marketing, mgmt, ALL politicians, Reginaites, and members of criminal gangs posses a common thread...they have developed effective social skills. In this day and age, with the Global Economy, their aim is to slaughter the [s]target[/s] client in the shortest cycle time possible.

OTOH, most 90%ers mindset is worse than the UCSer-Monkeys...ultra-short attention span...cannot identify rite/wrong/good/bad...continuously seeking the 'hot-tip' but do know what to do when they get one...do not know what questions to ask...willing to jump onto the newest fad with all fours...luv to pay tax...luv [s]crap[/s] trinkets and promises provided by UCSers...seek financial advice on public forums...believe they are immune from the 'forces' within the Global Economy. This is a short-list...a lot more where that comes from!!!

Unlike most 90%ers and ALL wannabees, 10%ers have more eyes and ears connected, thus the quality of info...REAL-INFO... adds value to their bank account.

Don't Trust Anyone.

BUYER BEWARE!!!